全面战争:战锤3

全面战争:战锤3

SFO: Grimhammer III
Imp0815 10 月 6 日 上午 2:55
Empire Feedback on Campaign and Co-op
We started playing a co-op campaign with SFO — one as Karl Franz, the other as Elspeth.
We’re around turn 50 now, and overall the campaign is really dragging and becoming quite frustrating for me personally.

I play Karl Franz, and my buddy plays Elspeth. The biggest issue I have is that Elspeth can easily confederate half the Empire before I even reach 2,500 Prestige or 10 Fealty. In most cases, 80% of the Elector Counts get wiped out before I can even engage with my campaign mechanics in the first place.

Overall, the Karl Franz mechanic feels rather redundant. You end up aiming for annexation anyway, and the existence of the Elector Counts feels like a gimmick meant to be consumed. I’m not sure if this is an SFO design choice — to push players toward annexing Elector Counts instead of maintaining them — but in my opinion, the Empire and Elector Count system should focus on balance of power and mutual benefit, not total absorption.

Franz’s gameplay should reward keeping Elector Counts alive — sharing income, unique units, and buffs — rather than just conquering everything like every other faction. But as mentioned, since the Electors die within five turns anyway, this ends up being a secondary problem.


Co-op Issues

Even if we manage to conquer the entire Empire despite the flawed design of Franz’s mechanics, the Elspeth player effectively cripples Karl Franz’s mechanics by locking me out of Elector Count bonuses.

I don’t know if we just picked a bad setup, or if this needs improvement, but I expected the game to recognize that if we play as a team, provinces held by my co-op partner should still count as “ours.” That way, I could still engage with my mechanics even if Elspeth controls the province.

It’s worth mentioning that this does work elsewhere — for example, when we played a Cathay campaign for around 150 turns, my quest progress still counted when my buddy captured the required settlements. So the groundwork for this feature already exists.


Campaign Pacing & Economy

The pacing and progression of the Empire campaign feel extremely erratic. I get that it’s called Total War, but the early game as the Empire is pure chaos. Bretonnia got wiped out instantly, most Elector Counts died immediately, Kislev is down to its last city, Dwarfs are fighting Wood Elves, and they’re both dying to Orcs.

Maybe it’s bad RNG, but I feel like I have zero room to maneuver or make decisions. We’re 20 hours in, and all I do is react to incoming armies, trying to deal them a bloody nose before another one arrives.

On top of that, the Empire’s economy feels awful. The only decent income building I have is the Dyemaker, because farms no longer provide income. This leaves me with around 2–3k gold per turn — barely enough to cover construction. My armies are stuck with Tier 1 and 2 units because I don’t have the time or money to retreat and rebuild. Disbanding to upgrade is suicide, as multiple factions immediately pounce the moment my power rating drops.

After 50 turns with the same weak units, it’s getting boring and mentally draining. I like a challenge, but I wish I had more control over when and how I fight — not just endless reaction to external pressure.


I suspect that the combination of a broken economy, lack of access to Elector Count bonuses, and some harsh faction balance decisions has turned the Empire campaign into a stressful game of whack-a-mole with no breathing room.


Constructive Feedback for SFO

Economy: Rework the Empire’s economy to allow more reliable income, even if all trade partners die. Bring back income for farms and add more mid-tier economic buildings that don’t hurt control.

Faction Placement: Move or remove some “evil” factions from the Empire’s heartlands to let the Elector Counts survive longer (e.g., Orcs in the north, Treefolk in the east, or Festus).

Co-op Mechanics: When playing as a team, make Elector Count slots unlocked if the player team controls the province — so Franz + Elspeth (or Franz + Gelt) can cooperate effectively.

Elector Count Design: Rework the system so that Franz benefits from keeping Elector Counts alive — gaining access to their unique units, bonuses, and income — and loses them if they rebel or declare war on each other and, of corse, die.
最后由 Imp0815 编辑于; 10 月 6 日 上午 5:24
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Imp0815 10 月 14 日 上午 2:06 
We’ve now entered turn ~85 and achieved our MP campaign goal, which came rather unexpectedly, as we only started conquering outside the Empire about 40 turns ago.

In hindsight, I don’t fully know what to make of the Empire in SFO yet. I think my previously written points still stand — the game, by nature of being surrounded, shifts from reacting and defending to reacting and conquering, as we basically conquered every faction that decided to declare war on me.

In this campaign, the Order factions seem fairly stable — Dwarfs and Elves are alive and well, only Cathay is overrun by Skaven. So trading and using Karl Franz’s campaign buffs work fine.

Yet, I still feel like the Empire’s design and placement don’t allow much wiggle room — it feels more like a challenge or puzzle to solve and roll dice on, with few real decisions.

I only had one proper opportunity to upgrade and build armies, which was cut short by another war declaration from a faction that had zero armies near my borders and was quickly overrun by me.

I had to heavily rely on my Elector Count state troops in this campaign, and most of my armies consist of them — which makes many armies feel samey. The question is whether this is intended, or if they’re just too good to pass up — or simply too convenient, since they can be summoned instantly when needed and my skills and research give me a steady supply. I don’t know, but I wish they were fewer, even more powerful, and that I had more time and money to recruit troops the normal way.

I suspect this effect is a mix of the Empire’s placement, its abundance of enemies, the constant pressure, and the weak starting economy with many limiting factors slowing you down. I have no money to build the economy if I constantly need to recruit Elector Count troops to respond to new threats or war declarations each turn — leaving me unable to recruit normal units or upgrade provinces for income, while emergency armies eat up my funds with upkeep.

Only now, at turn ~85, do I finally have the time and money to reflect on recruiting more diverse units, expanding my economy further, and building more military structures to raise my caps.

Overall, I really had fun with this campaign — the early struggle was challenging and engaging, and the Elector Count units are powerful. The Empire’s roster is fun overall if you enjoy gunlines. But it feels like the campaign could be streamlined into a more consistent experience with real choices to make and less reaction-based warfare.

P.S. Oh, and Elector Counts are a non-feature. You conquer the provinces, select a lord to take its place, and min-max their army a bit that way. For most Electors, the buffs are useless or negligible, and they can go into the waiting room forever.
I explicitly recruit lords to get faction buffs from Electors, then disband them the same turn I elect them.

In addition, in MP the Elspeth player could trade me the province capital — I select the Elector, and then they trade the settlement back while I keep the Elector Count title. It’s a workaround but ultimately complete cheese and really bad UX.
Also, I could never get Nuln from him, and I don’t know why — locking me out of the ultimate to summon the Elector Counts, which in hindsight would be rather stupid anyway, since all my armies would leave their fronts open when they teleport away. I’d never press that button. It’s a dead mechanic.
Just a comment, but elector counts are very weak... these idiots can't even form a normal army, and as soon as they leave the capital, they immediately go to the enemy and die in 100% of cases, even Karl Franz is just an idiot who flies to kill himself from vampires or orcs. And Vlad himself is simply immortal, he has a lot of regenerative abilities, one of which even makes him literally immortal, he kills almost any lord(in early game) in seconds, and it's even difficult to shoot him with firearms
最后由 Министр Пива 编辑于; 11 月 17 日 上午 3:08
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