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Arvaos ⚚ 11 月 21 日 上午 5:42
Ukraine and Europe Reject Trump’s Russia Peace Plan
The full text of the Trump administration's 28-point draft peace plan to end the Russia-Ukraine war was revealed.

Proposals include U.S. recognition of occupied territories as Russian and a 600,000 troop limit on the size of Ukraine's army. The Trump draft plan also contains security guarantees for Ukraine, no NATO expansion, and natural resource deals.

Washington is urging Ukraine to agree to the outline of a U.S.-mediated peace plan with Russia within the coming week, warning that vital military and intelligence assistance could be scaled back if Kyiv refuses.

Russia expressed optimism about the plan, saying Moscow felt its concerns were being heard.

Update: The US president, Donald Trump, has said “something good just may be happening” at the talks in Switzerland intended to end the war in Ukraine. European and Ukrainian negotiators have been attempting to “rework” the 28-point peace plan that the president put forward last week into one more favourable to Ukraine. Trump keeps signalling that he is willing to compromise, but his original plan put Ukraine in a very tough starting position, handing Vladimir Putin concessions that Russia has so far failed to gain on the battlefield.
最后由 Arvaos ⚚ 编辑于; 11 月 24 日 上午 9:13
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~Ren~ 11 月 21 日 上午 5:52 
引用自 Arvaos ⚚
Washington is urging Ukraine to agree to the outline of a U.S.-mediated peace plan with Russia within the coming week, warning that vital military and intelligence assistance could be scaled back if Kyiv refuses.

Roughly translated as 'accept the deal' or no more help. I thought that President Zelensky had already agreed to not giving up any land they had lost.
Tonepoet 11 月 21 日 上午 6:00 
So what deal will the Ukraine and Europe propose that Russia will accept?
最后由 Tonepoet 编辑于; 11 月 21 日 上午 6:00
Lambros 11 月 21 日 上午 6:06 
I dont understand why we are in Nato, or have 750 military bases around the world, or why we have spent $20 trillion on the military the last 25 years. And have this Russian aligned, inept liar, failure and corrupt criminal in chief.
Pocahawtness 11 月 21 日 上午 6:19 
引用自 Lambros
I dont understand why we are in Nato, or have 750 military bases around the world, or why we have spent $20 trillion on the military the last 25 years. And have this Russian aligned, inept liar, failure and corrupt criminal in chief.

You can't change the past, and people have very long memories. If the USA gives up it's crown, then someone will come knocking at the door. That is absolutely guaranteed.
Stakanov 11 月 21 日 上午 6:22 
From what I’ve been reading, Zelensky’s leadership is facing growing internal criticism, and some people in Ukraine are starting to describe the situation as increasingly authoritarian.
With the recent corruption scandals and ministers stepping down, it feels like the political structure is getting shaky.
If the country wants a stable future, it will probably need a stronger and more functional government eventually.
At some point, negotiations with Russia might become unavoidable, otherwise Ukraine’s long-term outlook as a nation could be in serious doubt.
WhiteKitt 11 月 21 日 上午 7:01 
i think this theatrical display with the Fire Power equal to an old Lady and the host being the typical Spider Man guy showing up at Kids Birthday Parties...

has become stale and i want something new and more exciting with like plot twists and like a major reveal and then also sharknado stuff and then like with alliances and voting out parties and you have pancake fridays and is hosted by the church so a lot of People get "bad touched" and then also... like gamers controlling the drones and not knowing it and like mutant soldiers like in warhammer and like hunger games or battle royale where they drop chests or something
-

ye. This is how i feel about the Ukraine War | A+
smokerob79 11 月 21 日 上午 7:49 
yeah not going to happen....its time for Europe to stop acting like we need to protect them and let them deal with it.....NATO is the biggest group of LAZY people on the planet.....
kilo 40 11 月 21 日 上午 7:53 
引用自 Stakanov
From what I’ve been reading, Zelensky’s leadership is facing growing internal criticism, and some people in Ukraine are starting to describe the situation as increasingly authoritarian.
With the recent corruption scandals and ministers stepping down, it feels like the political structure is getting shaky.
If the country wants a stable future, it will probably need a stronger and more functional government eventually.
At some point, negotiations with Russia might become unavoidable, otherwise Ukraine’s long-term outlook as a nation could be in serious doubt.

literally nothing you said is true.
Iggy Wolf 11 月 21 日 上午 7:57 
Only because it would cut off the cofers and stop making them money. War is profitable. And Ukraine ISN'T seriously interested in ending this war. I don't like Trump but Russia might even have a greater interest in ending this war than Ukraine at this point, whether they're losing or not.

In fact, they probably see the current situation as untenable and a liability but have no guarantees that Ukraine would cease their own hostilities if they were to abandon the conflict (which is why peace treaties are signed, so that both parties have assurances that no one will backstab them or continue the war anyway). And for Ukraine, that's not convenient cause then they'd stop getting free money and weapons from Europe.
Majestic Turkey 11 月 21 日 上午 8:03 
Forcing people to show their cards is still a valuable step

Ukraine wanting amnesty for stealing tells you all you need to know.
https://youtu.be/FtSAF6vxeeE
最后由 Majestic Turkey 编辑于; 11 月 21 日 上午 9:05
Stakanov 11 月 21 日 上午 8:07 
引用自 kilo 40
引用自 Stakanov
From what I’ve been reading, Zelensky’s leadership is facing growing internal criticism, and some people in Ukraine are starting to describe the situation as increasingly authoritarian.
With the recent corruption scandals and ministers stepping down, it feels like the political structure is getting shaky.
If the country wants a stable future, it will probably need a stronger and more functional government eventually.
At some point, negotiations with Russia might become unavoidable, otherwise Ukraine’s long-term outlook as a nation could be in serious doubt.

literally nothing you said is true.

There are reliable sources reporting exactly this. Denying everything won’t make the situation disappear...

引用自 smokerob79

The US absolutely needs to stop funding this, because you’re the ones keeping the whole conflict alive.
Ulfrinn 11 月 21 日 上午 8:09 
引用自 Tonepoet
So what deal will the Ukraine and Europe propose that Russia will accept?

Well, right now Poland is trying to blame Russia for everything in an attempt to get NATO involved against Russia. Ukraine has already been exposed doing things that they've blamed on Russia to try to get NATO involvement as their only hope for regaining territories. That's their plan. Of course, they'll all hide behind the US if their mouths actually end up signing that check.

NATO is a liability and inconsistent with US interests.
最后由 Ulfrinn 编辑于; 11 月 21 日 上午 8:09
󠀡󠀡 11 月 21 日 上午 8:10 
we dont even have 4 billion in the war chest to feed people

whats the meaning of this!

what would kamala have done?!

:drinkKoffee:
AdahnGorion 11 月 21 日 上午 8:12 
引用自 Tonepoet
So what deal will the Ukraine and Europe propose that Russia will accept?
A personal apology from Putin and withdrawal from all occupied territories, including Crimea.
But we learned from secound world war, so no punishment (pay for rebuilding, etc) instead a focus on join cooperation and regime change.
kilo 40 11 月 21 日 上午 8:14 
引用自 Ulfrinn
引用自 Tonepoet
So what deal will the Ukraine and Europe propose that Russia will accept?

Well, right now Poland is trying to blame Russia for everything in an attempt to get NATO involved against Russia. Ukraine has already been exposed doing things that they've blamed on Russia to try to get NATO involvement as their only hope for regaining territories. That's their plan. Of course, they'll all hide behind the US if their mouths actually end up signing that check.

NATO is a liability and inconsistent with US interests.

thanks for the update Ivan.
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