Yeah, Index is dead.

If you want wired VR, don't go with the Frame, it's not even an option, for literally no reason. Especially when we don't even know how much it will cost.

引用自 JohnnyHUN：

so in my mind Valve Index is still the best choice for gamer PC powered VR experience

Lower res, fresnel lens, wired, nah...

At this point it's hard to tell which would be better.
I already have Valve Index, planning to buy Frame when it would be released.
Then I want to compare them in HL Alyx. Basically play a level using Index, then replay the same level using Frame.

> so Valve is gonna shut down it's production

They officially said that they already did.

引用自 wing0zero：

引用自 JohnnyHUN：

so in my mind Valve Index is still the best choice for gamer PC powered VR experience

Lower res, fresnel lens, wired, nah...

Lower res, yes. I'd love to see VisionPro kind of resolution in Valve VR, but the price would be oof.
Wired is a plus in my case, I love 6-8 game sessions in VR, basically stop when one of the controllers turns off because it runs out of battery.
No wireless battery powered headset could provide that.

引用自 creatorcray：

I love 6-8 game sessions in VR, basically stop when one of the controllers turns off because it runs out of battery.
No wireless battery powered headset could provide that.

Quest 3 plus BoBoVR S3 head strap, the 3 battery fast charger dock with 3 10000mAh batteries = infinite wireless play time.

I would have been happy with the BigScreen Beyond screens

i must be missing something because i continue to be confused as to how anyone can even wonder whether or not the Frame will be better than the Index. saw someone say "the Frame is not meant to be the successor to the index", etc. what?

The Frame looks to me to be a way better device in every way except for maybe the audio quality and i guess if you're going to be a stickler about the different tracking being used... which i don't understand either. the inside-out tracking of the Quest has always worked just fine for me. in fact it worked better because i was never able to get the Index tracking to work very well despite purchasing a 3rd base station and making adjustments to positioning and such. ive been told i must have had a "reflectivity issue".. alright.. whatever, maybe that was the problem. but the tracking for the Quest works just fine and is more versatile in where you can use it and faster to set up. i'm glad the Frame has made the switch.

The Frame is higher resolution lenses, a better type of lenses (oh god the glare on the Index lenses could get bad), and is wireless for PCVR with a brand new solution for achieving it that will deliver better results than any other wireless PCVR methods previously seen. Or it can be used standalone without any streaming with your entire steam library at your disposal right on your face.

What exactly is not to love here? oh, the controllers? they look great! Yes the new controllers DO have the same capacitive finger tracking that the Index had. and it's also a fully functional controller for everything which is such a simple great idea that one wonders why the index was not designed to be a full modern controller as well.

引用自 psi onix：

i must be missing something because i continue to be confused as to how anyone can even wonder whether or not the Frame will be better than the Index. saw someone say "the Frame is not meant to be the successor to the index", etc. what?

The Frame looks to me to be a way better device in every way except for maybe the audio quality and i guess if you're going to be a stickler about the different tracking being used... which i don't understand either. the inside-out tracking of the Quest has always worked just fine for me. in fact it worked better because i was never able to get the Index tracking to work very well despite purchasing a 3rd base station and making adjustments to positioning and such. ive been told i must have had a "reflectivity issue".. alright.. whatever, maybe that was the problem. but the tracking for the Quest works just fine and is more versatile in where you can use it and faster to set up. i'm glad the Frame has made the switch.

The Frame is higher resolution lenses, a better type of lenses (oh god the glare on the Index lenses could get bad), and is wireless for PCVR with a brand new solution for achieving it that will deliver better results than any other wireless PCVR methods previously seen. Or it can be used standalone without any streaming with your entire steam library at your disposal right on your face.

What exactly is not to love here? oh, the controllers? they look great! Yes the new controllers DO have the same capacitive finger tracking that the Index had. and it's also a fully functional controller for everything which is such a simple great idea that one wonders why the index was not designed to be a full modern controller as well.

afaik if you wanted to use the Quest as a non-standalone VR, and you wanted your PC to power the VR experience you had to buy a really expensive and really specific cable to connect with your PC and it wasn't a plug n play thing. (and since Valve really pushing SteamOS I would question windows compability, gaming on SteamOS is a pile of cr4p)

And the thing that this Frame has a "built in computer" in your headset just adds unnecessary weight to your neck...

引用自 JohnnyHUN：

afaik if you wanted to use the Quest as a non-standalone VR, and you wanted your PC to power the VR experience you had to buy a really expensive and really specific cable to connect with your PC and it wasn't a plug n play thing. (and since Valve really pushing SteamOS I would question windows compability, gaming on SteamOS is a pile of cr4p)

And the thing that this Frame has a "built in computer" in your headset just adds unnecessary weight to your neck...

Dude, I hate Valve and I'm not buying SteamFrame because of the moronic forced wireless connection (it will absolutely cause latency issues, if you think otherwise you are insane), but you are just talking ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

From hundreds of games I launched on SteamOS, ONE doesn't work. And it's a Japanese rpg I installed via Heroic. Literally one game.

Frame being a standalone is actually a good idea for the current consumer market and the engineering that went into it is genuinely incredible. The thing isn't heavy and their thermal solutions are really good at their job.

If you are going to ♥♥♥♥ on Valve, which I fully support you doing that, do it for real reasons, not made up ♥♥♥♥.

引用自 Knightspace：

引用自 JohnnyHUN：

afaik if you wanted to use the Quest as a non-standalone VR, and you wanted your PC to power the VR experience you had to buy a really expensive and really specific cable to connect with your PC and it wasn't a plug n play thing. (and since Valve really pushing SteamOS I would question windows compability, gaming on SteamOS is a pile of cr4p)

And the thing that this Frame has a "built in computer" in your headset just adds unnecessary weight to your neck...

Dude, I hate Valve and I'm not buying SteamFrame because of the moronic forced wireless connection (it will absolutely cause latency issues, if you think otherwise you are insane), but you are just talking ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

From hundreds of games I launched on SteamOS, ONE doesn't work. And it's a Japanese rpg I installed via Heroic. Literally one game.

Frame being a standalone is actually a good idea for the current consumer market and the engineering that went into it is genuinely incredible. The thing isn't heavy and their thermal solutions are really good at their job.

If you are going to ♥♥♥♥ on Valve, which I fully support you doing that, do it for real reasons, not made up ♥♥♥♥.

I have Steam Deck so I am not agains Valve, but gaming on the Deck, especially outside Steam eco system is such a pain in the a$$. Even with Steam many games doesn't even work, for example WRC Generations. Not to mention if you wanna "borrow" games from pirate sites the incompability is endless. Even desktop apps are incompatible as hell. So I don't believe in the Frame's ecosystem at all.

And an extra hardware in a headset, and also an extra battery just adds weight that a non standalone VR headset doesn't have.

BUT I never said it's going to be crap, they are talented and I'm pretty sure they can do awesome things. All I said is I am not fan of standalone headsets at all, and I was disappointed that it's kinda like a new Quest and not a new Index

引用自 JohnnyHUN：

BUT I never said it's going to be crap, they are talented and I'm pretty sure they can do awesome things. All I said is I am not fan of standalone headsets at all, and I was disappointed that it's kinda like a new Quest and not a new Index

With Quest 2/3 taking 50% of the user base I can see why they opted for this style of unit, at least you can get high end 3rd party VR units, BigScreen Beyond v2 seems the sweet spot in that section.

引用自 JohnnyHUN：

And an extra hardware in a headset, and also an extra battery just adds weight that a non standalone VR headset doesn't have.

This could be an issue for some I guess, frail old ladies maybe, all I know is I can wear my Q3 with extra beefy head strap and bigger battery pack on the back all day.

Just do what I do and adopt a bit of Shaolin neck training.
https://steamcommunity.yuanyoumao.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3606755740

引用自 JohnnyHUN：

And an extra hardware in a headset, and also an extra battery just adds weight that a non standalone VR headset doesn't have.

How about I ruin this silly debacle with some annoying facts.

WEIGHT:
Valve Index: 810 g. (no battery, excluding cable, standard strap)
Reverb G2: 550 g (no battery, excluding cable)
Quest 3: 515 g (only built in battery, standard strap)
Valve Frame: 435 g (including better headstrap and large battery)
Valve Frame core: 190 g (no strap or battery, including onboard computer/SOC)

So let's get real. Even with the battery and strap, the Frame is the LIGHTEST headset out there for PC VR gaming. Full stop. It is lighter than the Quest 3 even with the added larger battery and onboard SOC.

It's only slightly more than HALF the weight of the Index WITHOUT the cable, which really does add considerable weight.

And that's before we even consider that many gamers add premium headstraps to both the Index and Quest making them even heavier.

The Frame is going to be THE LIGHTEST VR headset available at release, even with the larger battery and very capable onboard SOC. Complaining about "ooooh, it has an unnecessary computer" is about the silliest thing you could possibly do.

And yes, I own (or have owned and then resold) many of these headsets; including the original Vive, Index, Reverb, Quest 2, Quest 3, Pico, Pimax, and more. Sh*t, I started with a Forte VFX 1 in 1995. I do know a thing or two about VR headsets.

From a technical point of view, the Frame is going to be awesome. And lighter than pretty much everything already out there.