Wragan 11 月 16 日 上午 2:10
The AI disclaimer should be the other way around
The current disclaimer system is - in my opinion - is not working. It should be the other way around:

There should always be an AI disclaimer on a game's store page, and then every developer who didn't used AI could write "F*ck no, of course not!" to whether AI was used in the making of the game or if the game has AI content.

Anybody else would have to disclose it. The main point is that in this version, simply not saying anything would not be possible.

The current, basically voluntary, system is insufficient to secure transparency for Steam users.
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Agreed AI games should be flagged as such clearly
Ben Lubar 11 月 16 日 下午 9:56 
Games are required to fill out the content survey before they can launch their store page. The question about generative AI use is not optional.
引用自 Ben Lubar
Games are required to fill out the content survey before they can launch their store page. The question about generative AI use is not optional.

And yet there were games where it was only added after it was called out. The previous Call of Duty (Black Ops 6, I think) got it after people started to notice AI slop in the game. The Alters had lines from AI yet it was only ever mentioned after people started to ask the devs (still no disclaimer there).
Alright, let's flag then all games made with Unity, Unreal Engine, Godot etc. Clearly, it's important to clarify the tools that have been used for making the games.
引用自 ツ Sergio ツ
Alright, let's flag then all games made with Unity, Unreal Engine, Godot etc. Clearly, it's important to clarify the tools that have been used for making the games.

A wrench is a tool, it is designed to do a certain purpose with human effort. Photoshop is a tool, it is designed to do a certain purpose with human effort.

AI is not a tool, as it is akin to telling someone else to do your work for you. Except instead of a person, you're getting an algorithm to do it
引用自 Tamamo
引用自 ツ Sergio ツ
Alright, let's flag then all games made with Unity, Unreal Engine, Godot etc. Clearly, it's important to clarify the tools that have been used for making the games.

A wrench is a tool, it is designed to do a certain purpose with human effort. Photoshop is a tool, it is designed to do a certain purpose with human effort.

AI is not a tool, as it is akin to telling someone else to do your work for you. Except instead of a person, you're getting an algorithm to do it
AI is as much a tool as procedural generation is in a game. You can use the outputs in their raw state, or you can modify them into something better.

Also photoshop has AI assisted options like generative fill, and content-aware fill.
引用自 Tamamo
AI is not a tool, as it is akin to telling someone else to do your work for you. Except instead of a person, you're getting an algorithm to do it
Everything is done with algorithms behind the scenes nowadays.
引用自 Tamamo
引用自 ツ Sergio ツ
Alright, let's flag then all games made with Unity, Unreal Engine, Godot etc. Clearly, it's important to clarify the tools that have been used for making the games.

A wrench is a tool, it is designed to do a certain purpose with human effort. Photoshop is a tool, it is designed to do a certain purpose with human effort.

AI is not a tool, as it is akin to telling someone else to do your work for you. Except instead of a person, you're getting an algorithm to do it
Every single thing on photoshop is algorithmically generated to some extent, with “tools” like the remove, generative fill, and generative expand going even further than that. I am sorry but if technology moving forward with new tools like what is now being described as “AI” is not acceptable for you then your time using a computer or the internet is over.
Why are you swearing?
引用自 Shreddy
引用自 Tamamo

A wrench is a tool, it is designed to do a certain purpose with human effort. Photoshop is a tool, it is designed to do a certain purpose with human effort.

AI is not a tool, as it is akin to telling someone else to do your work for you. Except instead of a person, you're getting an algorithm to do it
Every single thing on photoshop is algorithmically generated to some extent, with “tools” like the remove, generative fill, and generative expand going even further than that. I am sorry but if technology moving forward with new tools like what is now being described as “AI” is not acceptable for you then your time using a computer or the internet is over.

What you are saying only applies to the new stuff. There are enough games, movies, series etc. to not having to touch the modern, AI generated slop for a good while. (Also, even if it's utilization had spread like some disease, there can still be some without it.)

My main point is that Steam should enforce a method that (could) lead to more transparency, while not giving the devs the option to not say anything. Of course, the devs CAN lie about it but that's different, if busted, than just not putting there an AI disclaimer.
引用自 Wragan
引用自 Shreddy
Every single thing on photoshop is algorithmically generated to some extent, with “tools” like the remove, generative fill, and generative expand going even further than that. I am sorry but if technology moving forward with new tools like what is now being described as “AI” is not acceptable for you then your time using a computer or the internet is over.

What you are saying only applies to the new stuff. There are enough games, movies, series etc. to not having to touch the modern, AI generated slop for a good while. (Also, even if it's utilization had spread like some disease, there can still be some without it.)

My main point is that Steam should enforce a method that (could) lead to more transparency, while not giving the devs the option to not say anything. Of course, the devs CAN lie about it but that's different, if busted, than just not putting there an AI disclaimer.

It's not going to be meaningful though because at a bare minimum every game is going to be using AI augmented coding.
引用自 Doctor Zalgo
引用自 Wragan

What you are saying only applies to the new stuff. There are enough games, movies, series etc. to not having to touch the modern, AI generated slop for a good while. (Also, even if it's utilization had spread like some disease, there can still be some without it.)

My main point is that Steam should enforce a method that (could) lead to more transparency, while not giving the devs the option to not say anything. Of course, the devs CAN lie about it but that's different, if busted, than just not putting there an AI disclaimer.

It's not going to be meaningful though because at a bare minimum every game is going to be using AI augmented coding.

Then tag all of them, and perhaps add a new filter to the store for it. Also, if the devs want to disclose the extend of the AI usage (if "it's just that" or more), then they can already do that. The users can decide what to do with the information. The point is that it must be there by default, not based on how honest the devs (or publishers or whoever sets up the store page) feel that particular day.
引用自 Wragan
引用自 Doctor Zalgo

It's not going to be meaningful though because at a bare minimum every game is going to be using AI augmented coding.

Then tag all of them, and perhaps add a new filter to the store for it. Also, if the devs want to disclose the extend of the AI usage (if "it's just that" or more), then they can already do that. The users can decide what to do with the information. The point is that it must be there by default, not based on how honest the devs (or publishers or whoever sets up the store page) feel that particular day.

I've only used AI for one game development project ever. It was a card game where I had Microsoft's AI (back when GitHub Copilot was first announced) autocomplete a design document.

Here's an example of a card from that game:
Spider (Boss, Spider, costs 1 TP)
ATK: 2
Spider is a card that can cause the player to lose the game.
When the player plays a Spider, they lose the game.

I haven't felt the need to have a fictional person who has no idea what they're doing interfere with my projects since.
引用自 Ben Lubar
引用自 Wragan

Then tag all of them, and perhaps add a new filter to the store for it. Also, if the devs want to disclose the extend of the AI usage (if "it's just that" or more), then they can already do that. The users can decide what to do with the information. The point is that it must be there by default, not based on how honest the devs (or publishers or whoever sets up the store page) feel that particular day.

I've only used AI for one game development project ever. It was a card game where I had Microsoft's AI (back when GitHub Copilot was first announced) autocomplete a design document.

Here's an example of a card from that game:
Spider (Boss, Spider, costs 1 TP)
ATK: 2
Spider is a card that can cause the player to lose the game.
When the player plays a Spider, they lose the game.

I haven't felt the need to have a fictional person who has no idea what they're doing interfere with my projects since.

I mean, I was pretty clearly talking about coding, not whatever that is. And even for the time period you're talking about (github copilot just coming out) that's embarrassingly poor output to the point where I'm going to have to blame user error.
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